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18TH-CENTURY CAPE BRETON ISLAND
TRANSCRIBED DOCUMENTS
PAH3153: 'The Town of Sydney [Cape Breton] in June 1788'
The Map
The Flag
THE RESEARCH THREAD
[Note: Edited for Obvious Spelling/Typo Errors]
From: "Eric Krause"
To: "Pieter van der Merwe"
Sent: 2017-12-09 10:20:15 AM
Subject: From Eric Krause -St. George Flag - Satire
Hi Pieter:
Good to know.
And how about this use in satire?
On 2017-12-08 2:24:09 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Thanks: Banger’s Pillar (built by John Light Banger in 1798) was a tall crane base on the Funchal beach below the Cathedral, no longer there (dem. 1939 for a road scheme) though a fragment survives moved to an adjacent garden area: I will look out next time!
On 2017-12-08 10:42:06 AM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
Same back.
Eric
On 2017-12-08 10:08:00 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Thanks very much: hope you have a good Christmas and a prosperous new year: today we hear that snow is falling in various parts of the UK -though not London yet- and that all schools have been cfosed in the Isle of Man (of all places) because of it. A case of 'the north wind doth blow'...
best wishes
Pieter
On 2017-12-08 9:40:30 AM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
Re: Madeira
Check out: The Nautical Magazine: A Technical and Critical Journal for the Officers of the Mercantile Marine, Volume 14, James Brown & Son, 1845 – p. 600.
Eric
On 2017-12-08 8:07:23 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
That sums up pretty well what the evidence seems to suggest. The 'flag of command' of admirals of the blue and red squadron was just a plain red or blue one, flown on the mizzen for rear- and the fore for vice-admirals, and - for admirals of the blue only-on the mainmast: the admiral of the red -usually only one in commission until 1805- was the 'admiral of the fleet' (ie the C-in-C) and flew Union at the main plus a red ensign. All flag officers of the white squadron (rear-, vice- and full admiral) flew the St George, so as not to be mistaken as French - a white flag with fleurs de lys being that of the pre-Revolutionary Bourbon navy. The stern ensigns (red, white, blue) followed that colour suite and its fair to say that the only British use for a plain whte flag in practically any circumstance was as a flag of truce. Therefore it was quite logical for the British to use a plain St George in any circumstance where they did not use a Union: its the reasons for choice between the two (or a naval white ensign used ashore) in the circumstances we have been discussing which are a bit of a puzzle. Maybe it was sometimes simple visibility, or what they had to hand, or the elision I've already mention between England/Britain.
Your Madeira reference is interesting: what's it from? I can't think what
'beach' but it may be where the harbour now is. Banger's Pillar I've never heard
of and there is certainly nothing obvious called that on site now, but I will
keep an eye out for.
Pieter
From: "Eric Krause"
To: "Pieter van der Merwe"
Sent: 2017-12-07 4:07:55 PM
Subject: From Eric Krause -St. George Flag - Final Thoughts
Hi Pieter:
So – from my point of view, at least, I believe that the strongest argument for the type of flag illustrated on this drawing, dated June, 1788, is that it is a standard white ensign. While both the author and the precise day of the drawing are unknown, the reason that a standard white ensign might have been raised are several:
(1) As you say, hard to imagine what other type of flag that this might have been.
(2) It is well recorded that on June 4th, each year, throughout the British Empire, the birthday of King George III was celebrated in many ways, that included, on land , the raising of flags, or creations thereof, displaying the St George Cross.
(3) June 4th was the King’s 50th birthday, a special birth date even during the 18th century.
(4) Admiral Herbert Sawyer - Rear Admiral of the White, and Commander in Chief was at Sydney on or about June 14, 1788, and the Admiral’s flag aboard ship would have been the standard White Ensign.
(5) On June 17, 1788, Sydney was officially informed it ought daily expect a visit from His Royal Highness, Prince William Henry.
(6) Although at this location there was no bastion, Flag Bastions displaying the St George flag were quite common, demonstrating that land-based White Ensigns had a role to play.
(7) And finally – something we never discussed to date, I recall quite a while back while researching another topic, a reference in Sydney to the deteriorating barracks and outside the military gate, I believe a pile of coal was mentioned, with, I believe, a flag marking its location. Unfortunately, I have not found that reference to date, but I do have at least one 1845 “coaling at Madeira” reference” :A white flag with St. George's cross indicates the Coal Store on the beach, and steam vessels intending to coal should bring up as near to it as possible. The flag is always hoisted over the Coal Store, adjoining Banger's Pillar, when coaling from the beach is practicable. No signal is hoisted at the Coal Store when the surf on the beach prevents coaling in 'the regular way; in such cases, coals will be shipped from the Pontinha.
On 2017-12-07 5:36:11 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Not a shadow: the colour image here and the flag on the drawing are in the same class -i.e. neither are clear but leaving it very hard to think what they might be if they are not standard white ensigns (pre-1801 pattern, lacking the St Patrick saltire in the Union quadrant)
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 06 December 2017 21:44
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause -St. George Flag - Shadow
Hi Pieter:
I was hoping that I could explain away the "smudge" as a darkish shadow or shadowed dip on a somewhat furled flag such as seen on the St. George flag on a British boat heading for landfall during the 1758 siege of French held Louisbourg. See image below:
But I am assuming that you are ruling this out?
Eric
On 2017-12-06 3:42:39 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Believe me, when I had it out originally I had a very close look and could
not make anything else out of it.
Pieter
On 2017-12-06 2:48:03 PM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
I appreciate that you took the time to look at this. Much appreciated.
Eric
On 2017-12-06 12:48:03 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
I’m afraid it just looks like a smudged white ensign
P
From: Eric Krause [mailto:krausehouse@krausehouse.ca]
Sent: 06 December 2017 13:48
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause -St. George Flag - Smudge Colour
Hi Pieter:
Looking over our correspondence I see that one issue with the flag on the
1788 painting of Sydney was not resolved. You stated early on: "the upper
quadrant is rather smudged ..." Since you can have a closer look at that smudge,
any idea what the colour of the smudge might be?
Eric
On 2017-12-05 9:12:16 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Well there's definitely a usage protocol that needs clarifying unless the Engand/Britain confusion was just as current then as it remains today in mixing up the two,-which is ertainly common and above all an English presumption- much to the fury of the Scots and Welsh albeit the latter have no presence in the Union flag (and fly the Welsh dragon at such things as sporting events). The residual Irish element in the Union is today a historical redundancy, since Irish independence: I don't think modern Ireland (Eire) makes much use of the St Patrick saltire and British Northern Ireland also doesn't .(The Protestant tendency there aggressively flies the Union -or the Red Hand of Ulster- and the Catholic nationalists the independent Irish tricolour. Flying the wrong one in the wrong place is still a serious risk to your health in that part of the nowadays less than United Kingdom).
Not sure I can take this much further, illuminating as the examples are but will keep in mind
best wishes
Pieter
On 2017-12-05 6:27:42 PM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
Not sure if just a colonial thing, but I have several period sources that the St. George Flag was raised in honour of King George III (June 4, 1738 January 29, 1820) on, or about, his birthday.
For example, in New York, in 1766 when, with Pitt and the King in support, the hated Stamp Act was repealed, the St. George was shown. Later, perhaps sometime between 1791 and 1796, Simcoe - Governor of Upper Canada - after erecting a flag staff on a battery, a very large enseign, the St. George Flag, was hoisted - and, as said in the account, that could happen on any particular day such as the fourth of June, the King's birthday.
Eric
On 2017-12-04 7:41:33 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
That's fun, albeit rather a different context: perhaps you have enough not to
raise a general question about colonial usages in a suitably vexillological
publication thereabouts!
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 04 December 2017 22:35
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: Re: From Eric Krause -St. George Flag - 1758
Hi Pieter:
FYI:
Here is another interesting use of the St. George flag, celebrating the fall of Louisbourg in 1758, that I just found in my notes. It's original source might be an "Extract of a Letter from South Carolina, Aug. 4, 1758":
* September 7, 1758
Pennsylvania Gazette (Fair Use © Accessible Gazette Inc.)
Philadelphia, September 7.
... The curious Fire works, proposed to be played off on Thursday Evening
last, as a Rejoicing for the Reduction of the Island of cape breton, and its
Dependencies, to the Obedience of his BRITANNICK Majesty, were obliged to be
deferred, on Account of the Weather, till Monday Evening, when they were
exhibited in the following Manner from a floating Castle, erected on Stages on
the River Delaware, having a Tower on the Right, with three Tier of Guns, and
the Inscriptions BOSCAWEN and AMHERST thereon; also a Tower on the left, with
the Inscriptions HARDY and WOLFE: in the Center a Citadel, with GEORGE REX, a
perpendicular Wheel, the Sun, and a Triangle Wheel, on the upper Tower, and a
St. George Flag on the Top of the Spire, represented in Fire work. On the upper
Part of the Curtain, CHARLES FREDERICK, King of Prussia, over two Tier of Guns,
ten in each; underneath which, on the Left, General Lawrence; on the Gate was
PIT and WHITMORE, inclosed by a fluted Column on each Side, with a full
Entablature over it.
On 2017-12-03 12:32:26 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Thanks, and for previous: so lots of variant uses not fully explainable though general 'British' intention clear enough. Oddly today I saw one much closer to home: an 1841 drawing of what looked like timber sheds at Millwall on the Thames just above Greenwich - where there was no Royal Naval presence that I know of - but also flying a white ensign. The use of it at Sydney at the time Sawyer is known to have been there seems a bit too much of coincidence just to pass off on general grounds however, even if not explicitly explainable..
I'll read the Baker paper, which looks interesting: I remember him well. We used to see him over here at conferences in the 70s and I visited him at MIT when briefly at Boston in 1979. The
b/w
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 03 December 2017 13:53
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause -Flag -Boston - 1722
Hi Pieter:
Here is a 1722 Map of Boston with a flag battery and ships in the harbour both flying the plain St. George.
https://www.colonialsociety.org/node/1977
Detail of John Bonner’s Map of Boston, 1722, with local shipping.
[https://www.colonialsociety.org/sites/default/files/csm-volume52/csm-volume52-p14_15.jpg]
From: "Eric Krause"
To: "Pieter van der Merwe" Sent: 2017-12-01 10:12:20 PM
Subject: From Eric Krause -Flag - Fort George
Hi Pieter:
Although the picture in this link is not in colour, I believe that we may see yet another plain St George flying off a flag bastion. The picture visualizes the Capture of Fort George and has the following date: "In the upper right hand corner it reads: "Porte Folio. July. 1817" Fort George was a British fort in Upper Canada and it fell to the Americans in 1813.
http://images.ourontario.ca/1812/73945/image/190030 - Click on this link for a large version
On 2017-11-30 2:14:45 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Not easy to see and looks more like a plain St George – but even that is a
bit of a puzzle. I spoke to a flag-buff here who had not come across this use of
white either so if it is something general I’m not sure how we are going to find
out what. Sawyer by the way must have been a rich man: in 1762, in command of
the frigate ‘Active’ he was one of two captains (the other being Philemon
Pownoll of the sloop ‘Favourite’) who captured the Spanish treasure frigate
‘Hermione’ - the richest single prize ever taken by the Royal Navy: £510K at the
time or over £70 million plus now. Even the seamen got so much prize money that
some were reported to have been seen frying silver watches bought in their
general carousings thereafter, which also pops up in a few images. Quite by
chance I found a Spanish silver-gilt dish inscribed (in English) to commemorate
the capture and presumably from the loot, in the Joao Wetzler collection of
silver, some English, in the Museu Quinta das Cruzes in Funchal, Madeira (a
place we spend the odd week every so often and an excellent one to go to in cold
winter weather at home, given its ‘shirt-sleeve’ conditions all year round).
Pieter
Hi Pieter:
I wonder whether you see again the same land flag as at Sydney also
being flown here at Annapolis Royal in 1753?
Water-colour. (National Archives of Canada C2706)
"View of the Town and fort of Annapolis Royal Nova Scotia taken on
the Spot by Capt. J. Hamilton of His Majest's 40th Rest. of foot" circa
1753, two years prior to the Acadian deportation.
http://www.tourannapolisroyal.com/book.html
For an expandable B&W version see:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/builtheritage/archives.asp?ID=2
Eric
On 2017-11-27 11:10:08 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Very impressive: I didn't know that naval men on colonial stations took the opportunity of being there to 'stake a claim', though it would explain why I have seen examples of men retiring to Canada for example as well as Australia (where army men certainly did from among those sent out to guard the convicts from 1788). None of the names ring an artistic bell with me either but if Dacres was a surveyor that's a possibility....putting 'No 1' in the corner of a drawing is the sort of thing a surveyor would do
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 27 November 2017 14:46
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause - List of men on 4 ships
Hi Pieter:
Yes, that would be a long shot for sure. At any rate, here is a list of some
of the known men that were on this ship. None, for me, jump out out as a marine
artist in a Google search, but perhaps you would have better luck here:
LIST OF MEN APPLYING FOR LAND GRANTS
ON HIS MAJESTY'S SHIP LEANDER:
* Rear Admiral Sawyer
* Sir James Barclay, bart.
* Hubert Brawel - First Lieutenant
* John Dacres, Secretary to Rear Admiral Surveyor
* George Hope, Lieutenant
* David Lloyd, Lieutenant
* John Jackson, Master
* Robert Melville, Surgeon
ON HIS MAJESTY'S SLOOP WEAZLE
* Thomas Western - Officer
* James Baque - Officer
* John Clifford - Officer
* Samuel Shrigby - Officer
* Samuel Sandys - Officer
* Captain Charles Sawyer
ON HIS MAJESTY'S SHIP RESOURCE
* Samuel Wickham - Second Lieutenant
* Paul Minchin, Captain
* Robert Batsey - Lieutenant
* Samuel Wickham - Lieutenant
* Thomas Audley, Master
* Jonathan Hammond - Lieutenant of Marines
* John Birtwhistle, Surgeon [or Britwhistle]
* John Tyson, Purser
* Andrew Napier, Gunner
* William Walters, Boatswain
* John Craycroft, Carpenter
* William Darley, Lieutenant of Marines
ON HIS MAJESTY'S SHIP DIDO
* Captain Charles Sandys
* Charles Dudley Pater - Lieutenant
* Charles Gray - Lieutenant
* John Atley, Master
* Henry Montieth, Lieutenant Marine
* George Taylor, Purser
* William Selby, Surgeon
On 2017-11-26 8:11:17 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Interesting and many thanks, since we can at least confirm that Sawyer was there in June, which provides opportunity for a specifically naval artist. The only way to find the manning of the ships is to look at the Muster Books in the National Archives but it would only deliver a result if one came across a name (officer or other) who was already known as an artist. Its rather a long shot....
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 25 November 2017 17:15
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause - Rear-Adm Sawyer At Sydney in June
Hi Pieter:
I have checked further using other search criteria and have confirmed that on
June 14, 1788 there were a number of ships, having already arrived at Sydney,
that included the following:
Leander: "Rear-Admiral" Sawyer and Capt. James Barclay; Weazle: Capt. Charles
Sawyer; Resource; and Dido.
On May 21, 1788, in a Halifax court martial [Minutes of a court martial. assembled and held on board his Majesty's ship Dido], Sawyer was described as "Herbert Sawyer, Esq. Rear Admiral of the White, and Commander in Chief, &c. &c." and on July 30, 1788, in Halifax Harbour, when Sawyer - who had returned to Halifax somewhat before July 22, 1788 - was aboard the Leander, the merchant's of the place congratulated him on his "Promotion to a Flag in His Majesty's Navy", which Sawyer confirmed.
Now then - would the hunt for the name of the artist be made a bit easier if we had fuller crew and officer lists for this period and for these ships (there, of course, may have been other ships gathered here to at Sydney that were not mentioned in my documents and I will check further)? I do have several crew and officer names and will provide them to you shortly.
Later,
Eric
On 2017-11-25 7:24:22 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
I did not assume Sawyer was there when William was - if so that would have been clear in Dyott etc - but its just possible he might have been very briefly when the drawing was done -and its the only immediate explanation I can think of, assuming what's shown is correct. One argument against is that there is no sign of any ship (or even more local craft), allowing that the drawing might have been done from one, though perhaps simply from the opposite shore: naval men do tend to include them -but not necessarily, and of course the artist may not have been naval.
The only other one -entirely speculative- if whether the flag-officer at
Halifax had some sort of local 'maritime' jurisdictionction which saw his flag
being flown generally ashore up and down the coast, but it's not something I've
ever heard of. It's a puzzle, but time and probably seredipitius accident may
turn up some explanation
Pieter
From: Eric Krause Sent: 24 November 2017 21:01
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Sawyer
Hi Pieter:
I had considered this earlier as I thought too this might be a possibility when I read the minutes, but, as far as I could determine, Sawyer did not personally visit Sydney at this time. It was a received message from Halifax, I believe. Via what ship I do not know.
I also earlier tried to determine what other Naval Vessels might have visited Sydney at this time to cause a land flag, but came up short.
I will take second look at this.
Eric
On 2017-11-24 10:22:22 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe"
Your mention of R-Adm Herbert Sawyer – presumably C-in-C on the Halifax Station at the time prompted me to check his exact rank, which was Rear-Admiral of the White from September 1787 to September 1790, when he advanced to Rear-Admiral of the Red. This might just explain why a white ensign is shown flying in the drawing if – for example- he was briefly ashore as the senior authority for some reason or it was otherwise flying in compliment to him: its not at all a practice I’ve come across (and where is his ship?) but it’s at least an interesting coincidence.
Pieter
On 2017-11-24 9:41:56 AM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
Best wishes back.
Eric
On 2017-11-24 6:25:50 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
OK: I'll let you know. Macarmick's request for Govt House repair funds anticipating William's visit suggests Macarmick was probably there: it would be very odd if he wasn't unless not in Nova Scotia at all and I suspect the apparent ref to Des Barres as still Lieutenant Governor and 'dining' with him in Dyott's diary is a mistake by the 1907 editor of that: either conflating the two L-Gs because not realising Des Barres had gone or, as you suggested, just a textual confusion of some other sort. It was over 100 years ago and he wouldn't have had the sources access we can now call up-even if still rather patchy.
If you want to add the drawing to your website (ideally with a link back to ours for the full online description) I dont think there's anything to stop you -its only low res - and spreading further around might lead to identifying who did it either by style or the handwriting if anything else by whoever it was has survived elsewhere.
Best wishes for Christmas, which advances apace with the diary filling and the bank account draining....
Pieter
On 2017-11-23 10:19:55 PM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
That's great and hopefully you will find something of use.
As for me, looks like I am tapped out and I have no more sources to consult. My last finding was that at a Sydney Council meeting of June 17, 1788 it was reported that Rear Admiral Sawyer had sent ahead a great confidence heads up that Sydney ought to look daily for a visit by Prince William Henry. On August 7, referred to again was the expected visit of the Prince, and on October 11, he materialized! So much for the daily look.
Eric
On 2017-11-23 9:51:09 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Sorry for delay: I looked at the Andromeda lieutenants's logs but unfortunately (though not unusually) the run is incomplete and there are none between mid 1779 and 1793. I'll pull out the Prince's captain's log when next at the National Archives. Not surprised by 'lots of words' etc. in his local address of 11 Oct 1788: he was just being kept occupied on 'makee-workee' somewhere he could do no serious political damage...
Pieter
Manuscript Group 11, Colonial Office 220, Nova Scotia and Cape Breton Sessional Papers, Journal of the Executive Council, 1788 (MG 11, C.O. 220, C.B. "B", Volume 4), pp. 137-143
That's very interesting: usually one sees the Union on shore on British possessions but perhaps there's some variation going on that I've not encountered. The one shown in our drawing isn't a St George though (which is the 'flag of England', as opposed to the Union - which at this time lacked the red St Patrick saltire of Ireland): the only reason I haver over it being a white ensign is that the upper quadrant is rather smudged, but is hard to thing what else it could be - and a white ensign is only a naval flag. I'll see if I can find anything else.
Pieter
From: "Eric Krause"
To: "Pieter van der Merwe"
Cc: "Catherine Arseneau"
Sent: 2017-11-11 12:46:14 PM
Subject: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Visit - Sydney - FLAG
Hi Pieter:
Am I correct in saying that the flag flown at the garrison town of Sydney, Cape Breton, in June, 1788, would be considered to be the Flag of England where one might have expected the Union Flag?
Similarly, in Placentia, 2 years earlier, although I cannot examine the land situated flag myself (not detailed enough - maybe you can?), the claim here too, by this author Everts, is that this is the flag of England and hence not the Union Flag.
Click On The Image To Enlarge It
The Placentia Area - A Changing Mosaic By Lee K.M. Everts, Paperback – March 25,
2016
On 2017-11-11 11:03:35 AM, "Eric Krause" wrote:
Hi Pieter:
Yes - keep me in mind.
In August, Macarmick was really concerned about pleasing the Prince during his future visit, but I see no comment by him re his visit or post his visit.
Annual Report - Public Archives of Canada By Public Archives of Canada - State Papers - Cape Breton, Public Archives of Canada, 1896
August 4, 1788
[Page 20] Macarmick to Secretary of State (Sydney). Has been obliged to draw on the Treasury for additional repairs to Government House; sends vouchers, &c. The expected arrival of Prince William Henry makes him wish not to appear housed in an uncreditable manner. The present expense has been only sufficient to render things decent. [Col. Cor., C.B. 64, p.] 391 ....
On 2017-11-11 10:24:28 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Ah so... I'll change it over the w/e and hope it will reload within the next few days. We do have lieutenants logs for Andromeda from 1777 to 1797 (ADM/L/A126). We also have Pr WH's Order book for the period: its says 24 Sept 1788-3 October 1788 but I can't believe its that short unless just a fragment. I'll try and remember to have a look at them anyway and see if there's anything of interest -even only the weather and local ship movement. The log might just confirm whether 'He dined with his Royal Highness' is a reference to the lieutenant-governor (ie Macarmick) coming on board, in which case it would show Dyott as simply confused on the 'who's who'.
Thanks again
Pieter
On 2017-11-11 6:00:45 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
I see how I made the error- I was counting days forward in the left margin from 1 September on p. 53 and missed the month change in small print in the right margin on p. 55 which is presumably an editorial insertion. But there are no dates, so refs to Wednesday and then Friday for example don't even have to even be in the same week if the context linking them isn't clear, so my count may have been wrong anyway : do you have another corroborating source (ie not Dyott) for your 8-16 October ones? Its something I could probably check in one of the ship's logs if necessary: we may have one of the lieutenants' logs since they all had to keep them until 1809 and we have all that survive (ie hundreds)
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 11 November 2017 13:05
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Visit - Sydney - DATES
Hi Pieter:
Using a 1788 Calendar and because we know that it is October (indicated on page 55) and then working backwards:
Go to page 59: you will see "Monday following, the 20th" (when they returned to Halifax) which is still in October as it isn't November until a later Saturday on Page 59
That would make the previous Thursday October 16; then the previous Monday October 13.
Then on page 57: That would make the previous Wednesday October 8.
Eric
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 10 November 2017 13:27
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: MORE --- From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Visit - Sydney
Hi Pieter:
In buttoning down my account of the visit to Sydney, I worked out the dates to be October 8-16 and not with a Wednesday 24 September 1788 start date and leave date of 1 October. Perhaps recheck the following pages:
https://archive.org/stream/dyottsdiaryselec01dyotuoft#page/n7/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/dyottsdiaryselec01dyotuoft#page/54/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/dyottsdiaryselec01dyotuoft#page/56/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/dyottsdiaryselec01dyotuoft#page/58/mode/2up
Eric
On 2017-11-10 6:24:32 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Sorry: meant to send link http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/143100.html
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 09 November 2017 19:41
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Subject: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - DesBarres
Hi Pieter:
As indeed he did --- but, as I mentioned, post 1787, he never returned to Nova Scotia in the 18th century, and certainly not in 1788, given the real chance that he might have ended up in jail. Too busy in England trying to clear his name, which he ultimately did, and, as his reward, in his mind at least, sent of to PEI, but, no doubt in the minds of others, good riddance - and, as I said, where he once again stirred the pot. Seemingly, he thrived on attacks and plots that would have destroyed a lesser man!
Looking forward to the final text. Good work.
Eric
On 2017-11-09 11:07:00 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
OH: –new text should turn up online in due course with a few minor amends. I see Des Barres in fact did retire to NS after 1812 and is buried in Halifax. Probably rather appropriate given the years he spent, for good or occasionally otherwise, on the Eastern Seaboard.
Enjoy the last of the autumn
before it really gets cold….
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 09 November 2017 14:58
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Cc: Catherine Arseneau
Subject: Re: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Town Views
Hi Pieter:
Glad to have been of some help.
Eric
Dear Eric
Just to answer whether ‘He dined with His Royal Highness’ might be really ‘We dined…’. It might be, but whereabouts of the Dyott MS – which is the only way to check –is a moot point: it may in fact still be with the Dyott family at Freeford Hall, Staffordshire, since they still seem to be there. It may also be that Dyott confused Des Barres and Macarmick, his successor, given he doesn’t otherwise mention his name as being there at the time.
I think I’ve gone about as far as I can in terms in cataloguing the drawing for general purposes, though happy to tweak further if you have any other comment/correction to the updated text. I’m very grateful for your help and have made a note in the database of this with the sources you have mentioned.
best wishes
Pieter
Many thanks: that’s all clear.
I have re-cast the description taking in what we have dug out.
A view of Sydney, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, looking east from its harbour on what was then called Spanish River – the inlet leading to Spanish Bay about twelve miles to the north. The town was founded in 1785 by the military cartographer Captain (later Colonel) J.F.W. Des Barres, though there had been a previous small French settlement there. Des Barres was appointed British lieutenant-governor of Cape Breton from 1784 but only arrived on site at Sydney in January 1785. Following local dissension with his regime, he left for England on 13 October 1787 never to return, and was succeeded by Colonel William Macarmick who remained at Sydney into the mid-1790s. The location is confirmed by early maps which clearly show the Barracks (constructed 1785-86) as the largest structure on the headland on which the town was built. The inscription 'No.1' in the top right corner of the wash-line surround also shows the drawing was one of a series (the others not being present in the collection). Curiously, the British flag flying at centre is a white ensign, or an otherwise 'defaced' St George's cross, rather than a Union. The white ensign at this time was only a Royal Naval squadron colour, not the overall naval flag it became in 1864 so its use here is not easily explained. The draughtsman may have been an army officer at Sydney or a visiting naval one: both were trained to make this type of view for professional purposes, though the sky and sea are more artistically rendered than in many such examples. If a military artist, the style suggests he could have been trained by Paul Sandby, who was senior drawing master at the Royal Military Academy at Woolwich, 1768–96. On Wednesday 24 September 1788, during his late Canadian cruise as captain of the frigate 'Andromeda', Prince William Henry (later William IV) made a visit to Sydney, of which there is informal account in the journal of Lieutenant - later General - William Dyott (1761–1847) who accompanied him. Dyott first notes that before sailing up river the Prince visited to the coal mines closer to Spanish Bay, which were a main source of local revenue, and reports that Sydney was then garrisoned by part - in fact six companies - of the 42nd Regiment (the Black Watch) under Lt-Col. [Charles] Graham, who dined on board with them. He makes no reference to Macarmick, which suggest he may not have been there at the time. ‘The town’, he continues, ‘…consists of about fifty houses… surrounded to the very sides of the buildings [i.e. of the town as a whole] by an almost impenetrable wood. There is a narrow path from the barracks just to keep up a communication, and that’s all the clear country I saw. The barracks are shamefully bad; the troops have cleared a good parade [ground] and made themselves as comfortable as their situation would allow. The officers had no rooms in the barracks, and were obliged to build huts and log-houses.’ On Monday 28th the Prince and Dyott dined on the other side of the harbour with a 'Mr Cayler' (Abraham Cuyler), ‘secretary to the Government of Cape Breton. We had a good dinner, and got outrageously drunk, Prince and subject.’ 'Andromeda' left on Thursday 1 October, returning to Halifax, after ‘a very pleasant week [and] rather more wine than was good for our constitutions’. (‘Dyott’s Diary, 1781–1845…’, ed. R. W. Jeffery [1907], vol. 1, pp. 58–59). An even more disparaging 1789 account of the town and its economy by an anonymous army writer appears in Brian Tennyson's 'Impressions of Cape Breton' (1986) pp. 60-61. This drawing appears to be part of the Macpherson Collection, acquired in 1928: it has long been filed amid images of Sydney, New South Wales, equally long assumed to be one, and was only correctly identified in November 2017.
Best wishes and in haste. Must get off
Pieter
From:
Eric Krause
Sent: 08 November 2017 20:44
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Cc: Catherine Arseneau
Subject: Re: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Town
Views
Hi Pieter:
The views are taken with the ships or a boat in Sydney harbour, and for the sake of this discussion, let's say that they were anchored where the note "archives of Canada" is located on this 1795 copy of a map, but even further westward within the harbour . Given the Christian cross at Levante (E) shown on the compass, our 1788 painter would be looking EAST toward the town. From there too, in the case of 1785 Booth who was also looking east, he could equally look North East up the harbour towards its mouth and toward the mines on the opposite shore as described in 1788.
Desbarres was appointed lieutenant governor of Cape Breton Island and actually arrived on the island in 1784 but did not arrive in Sydney until 1785, the official date of its founding. He left in 1787 and did not return in 1788 as you asked me, and, in fact not at any later date in the 18th century did he return to Cape Breton. From 1804 to 1812, he was Governor of Prince Edward Island, and, yes, he did go there, where in typical manner, he again stirred the pot.
Re Prince dining with DesBarres: Might this be a transcription error from the original manuscript and rather than "He dined with his Royal Highness" it should be "We dined with his Royal Highness"?
Eric
On 2017-11-08 11:29:01 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
OK: just to clarify
since I don’t know the topography
(1) what is the compass point towards which one is looking in the NMM drawing, and from which named stretch of water?
(2) ditto, the Booth drawing, if different?
(3) so Des Barres founded (or re-founded if originally a French settlement acc Dyott)- only in 1785 and though nominally lieutenant-governor of Cape Breton from formal appointment in 1784 to 1805 in fact left in 1787 and did not return there at all: is that correct? It would mean that whatever Dyott meant by the Price dining with Des Barres it was somewhere else and at some other time than at Sydney.
(4) Presumably he did go to Prince Edward Island when appointed lieutenant governor there in 1805?
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 08 November 2017 15:08
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Cc: Catherine Arseneau
Subject: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Town
of Sydney, Etc.
Hi Pieter:
Comment in question:
"The town of Sydney consists of about fifty houses situated on the banks of Spanish River, and surrounded to the very sides of the buildings by an almost impenetrable wood. There is a narrow path from the barracks just to keep up a communication, and that's all the clear country I saw ..."
This makes sense only if he is describing the land east of the stretch of buildings fronting the harbour and its esplanade - that is to say, for example, to include Great George Street - and to the south toward the Mira River. And, yes, there was but a narrow path that led from the barracks [to, I am surmising, North Charlotte Street which lay to the east of the esplanade] "and what he meant by "that's all the clear country he saw", he meant: the Military Grounds, the fifty houses and the properties on which they stood, the Esplanade, and perhaps the narrow path itself.
Sydney - 1785 - Lots of Woods
Founding of Sydney by Lt. William Booth, 1785
Re Sydney's size - I assume that you mean that that there were 50 houses? An open question and I wouldn't worry too much here - varies on who is saying it and why, and what is counted. BTW - which account were you referring to?
Your comment in a separate note that you sent:
"PS to previous: the footnote on p.58 of Dyott is misleading. the quote from AG Bradley's life of Wolfe (1850, but pp. 108-09 in the 1895 edition) describes Louisbourg in c. 1758, not Sydney"
Correct, he was describing the Town of Louisbourg that fell in 1758. But where Dyott might have confused and thought it to be 1757 - some 30 plus years earlier - is that there was indeed a serious Royal Navy expedition to take Louisbourg in 1757, but that the fleet had to turn back owing to a strong French Naval force then at Louisbourg.
Dyott is also a bit off with current events as well - like thinking that in '83' Des Barres was sent out as governor. Of course, that he didn't arrive in Sydney until 1785 [DesBarres: Leaves England (October 16, 1784); Arrives Halifax (November 14, 1784); Arrives Cape Breton (December, 1784 -[Note: Arrives St. Peter's Bay - Isle Madame - December and Arrives Sydney, January 1785]
Finally, DesBarres, to my knowledge, never returned in 1788 to Nova Scotia because of fear of arrest:
"In 1787, from Cape Breton Island, "... DesBarres departed for Europe, having chartered an old brigantine to convey him thither. Having been warned that those who claimed money from him [he had kept the Sydney colony going pretty much on his own signature], because of the bills which had been dishonoured, were waiting to have him arrested, he sailed to the Island of Jersey where he arrived on December 7th. He sent a requisition to Lord Sydney asking for a guarantee of immunity from arrest so that he might safely visit London, but this was refused [Sydney, who was to get DesBarres the job as Cape Breton's governor, but just a few years earlier was to desert DesBarres]. He, thereupon, went secretly in disguise to England and reached Whitehall in April, 1788." (John Webster Webster, The Life of Joseph Frederick Wallet Desbarres (Shediac, N.B.: Privately printed, 1933), p. 42.)
Eric
On 2017-11-08 6:10:10 AM, "Pieter van der Merwe" wrote:
Well spotted: it was very late when I
had a quick look for a googlebook only and forgot to check
archivestream. That helps improve the drawing description
though its curious he describes the landscape round the
barracks as densely wooded, which is not obvious from the
drawing. He also appears to say Des Barres was back in NS
(if not Sydney) by autumn 1788 and dined with WH (which
implies his stay in London in April was only brief) unless
'He dined with his Royal Highness' simply means that the had
done so at some earlier point. According to the footnote on
p.58 his description of Sydney's size at the time seems at
odds with another: which is more correct do you think?
I think the newspaper refs to standards all mean the same
thing, i.e the Royal Standard: the 'English' one is a
journalistic paraphrase, since when it was lowered as the
'Royal' standard it was a small version of that which was
hoisted in the Prince's boat - which was (and is) normal
practice when they are being flown for royalty afloat.
Pieter
From: Eric Krause
Sent: 08 November 2017 02:28
To: Pieter van der Merwe
Cc: Catherine Arseneau
Subject: From Eric Krause - Prince William Henry - Andromeda
- Dyott
Hi Pieter:
Here is an online version:
https://archive.org/stream/dyottsdiaryselec01dyotuoft#page/n0/mode/2up/search/about+three
On 2017-11-07 9:44:32 PM, "Eric
Krause"
wrote:
Hi Pieter:
Here I have attached the newspaper account where the 2 types
of flags struck while in Halifax Harbour are described:
(1) the standard of England
(2) the Royal Standard
Nova Scotia The Halifax Gazette, September 2, 1788
On 2017-11-07 8:21:20 PM, "Pieter van der Merwe"
wrote:
William Henry's 'state' visit to NS was not his first: he
had paid a similar diplomatic call at Havana in 1783, when
still a lieutenant, on which occasion the ship also flew the
Royal Standard -though he was not commanding it.
This is shown in a painting by Serres, though the Standard
is too small to see online
His ship is the one in mid-distance, not the Spaniard in the
right foreground.There is a bit more detail in the NICE
entry one can reach from there, but it still has the
misdated previous title wrongly giving the location as Rio
de Janeiro -which it clearly isn't and which WH never
visited- and the date as 1790.
WH would only have flown the Standard on such occasions. He
did not routinely have the Standard flying on any ship he
was on in his role as a sea officer, either as a subordinate
or a captain.
Chapter 5 of Philip Ziegler's biography, William IV , says a
little about his Canadian jaunt in Andromeda, on which he
was sent back transatlantic by his disapproving father
George III to get him away from the arms of a Mrs Winne,
into which he had fallen on return from the West ndies in
the Pegasus: it was a round of drunken revelry in a squadron
commanded by a captain even more disreputable than he was
and there appears to be a good account of his progress in
the private journal of one of the lieutenants, William Dyott:
see Dyott's Diary, ed R.W. Jeffery (1907). Ziegler uses that
though not at a detailed level and I can't see an online
full text. However it does contain two refs to 'Sydney (Cape
Breton)' in vol 1 p. 58 and 59 and two to Cape Breton more
generally on 33 and 57.
None of this however helps with the 'white ensign' puzzle.
best wishes
Pieter